Opposition: Premier under investigation

Next thing you’ll hear that the Premier/UDP is found with CORRUPTION, and like TCI, then talks about a British takeover (UK dictatorship) to sweep house!

Like the old saying: Be careful what you ask for.

Boddden:
You are not living in the real world, I fear. Why on earth would the UK Government wish to take over Cayman with its financial, political, and law-and-order problems?
I would think the opposite (a hand-over, if that could be arranged)much more likely to be the case.

Really? This old chestnut? Is this the angle that the PPM want to use to try and take back government? The UDP seem to be doing a pretty good proactive job of stimulating the Cayman economy, which lets not forget was not in a good shape when they took over from the former government. Let the police to their job and investigate and let the muck rakign stop for the benefit of CAyman until there is otherwise proof of wrong doing.

What surprises anybody about this revelation. This man has skirted more issues than Madonna. I wouldnt trust this man as far as I can throw him.

@Old Hand – I am living in the real world! They took over Turks and Caicos because Michael Misicks corruption (so they say), and tried to pin corruption here before, but fortunately for us loss all the cases and had to pay off one of our beloved Justices, Justice Henderson. That is how the British elites operated before, and they can do it again. Mark my words.

It was so surprising to hear the obviously very coincidental appearance of Alden, Arden and Ezzard all on the Rooster this morning.

The three musketeers totally ready, prepared and salivating all over the air just at same time the headlines broke.

Ezzard, isn’t your day Tuesdays? And isn’t the Alden and Arden show on Wednesdays??

Bunch a jokers.

There is an old saying…people in glass houses should not though stones.
Investigate all of them.
But let’s get back to letting the elected government govern in the interim.

The government won’t be torn down by an investigation into one man. The government of this great country is much more than the sum contributions of one man. The truth will show itself.

PLEASE STOP.

You are taking The Cayman Islands in a dangerous direction with this PPM vs UDP.

As a born and bred 5th generation Caymanian living in Jamaica, I see first hand the aftermath of party politics. What you all are doing is not a joke and you are playing with more than fire.

I am begging the Jamaicans who love Cayman and experienced the 80’s war to please try and speak up, tell the die hards PPM and UDP what BOTH political parties did to the beautiful land of your birth. I know that with what is going on in Cayman now, you can see the beginning of it.

Let me give you a little of the quiet peaceful aftermath of war because of party politics. You are afraid to drive through certain communities, forget walking. If you wear orange shirt you’re seen as a supporter of one party, if you wear green shirt you’re seen as another, albeit you have affiliation with neither. I was visiting my in-laws once a few years ago, and my brother in law wanted something from a particular shop, but because he lived in a die hard green shirt community and would have to pass through a section that was affiliated to a orange shirt, then the other route had gunmen, he had to send a 5yr old child to get it. Needless to say I don’t go back there. I was asking my mother in law if they had yet caught a particular young man who was affiliated to the Don that was on the run and she said shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, don’t talk too loud. I was in her living room!!!!!

Ask any Jamaican about a garrison community, if they tell you they lived in one, ask them to tell you the truth about the life, how men who control these communities treat persons who live there. If you have your teenage in some cases younger daughter, they take them and break them in if you don’t send them you better run wey or you will die. If you don’t hold order you dead. If they can’t get you they kill your mother, father, sister, brother, granny, baby and so on. They then burn you out. In one green shirt community, a elderly man who would not hold order, and give them free rent, was killed and they take his property as if it was their own. If your MP is doing something that you don’t like you better keep you mouth shut, if police kill a member of the community that is gun man, you are forced to go protest, if you don’t you die, because you must support the other party.

I always remember two incidents that my husband described to me, when he was a young man in a green controlled garrison. He was on his way to church and political gunmen was blocking the road, he was draped up by one and was told block the road he refused and could have been killed, when some one told the guy to leave him alone cause he’s a church ‘yute’. The other is one day he was heading to work and a green shirt gunman ask him who him and wha yu a do ya? and marched him off to an abandon building, where the others were, and asked them if they knew him and if nobody did he would be killed, (his brother was a well known jockey, and they look alike), as the guy put the gun to his head, Gods mercy sent a young man who said yes man mi know him, him a jockey brother. And they let him go. Even today over 20 odd years later there are daily curfews in garrison, communities island wide trying to clean up what party politics started.

Is this the kind of life you want for your children and grand children. Is this the legacy you all want to leave behind, that you ruined Cayman because of party politics. If you say I hate Mac or UDP or hate Alden or PPM, you are headed down that road. That’s how it starts,with hate. Then you become a die hard, then you tell your children that the next party is and its people is no good and the cycle gets worse.

Cayman already have a gang and gun problem, imagine if one of these thugs decide to become aligned to either of these parties. STOP you are not PPM or UDP, you are Caymanian. And if you all take off your party alignment glasses you will see that PPM UDP are both power hungry.

Remember after ivan when you all was whipped into a frenzy and wanted to get rid of UDP and then you got PPM and wished everyday for election to come to get rid of them. Then you got rid of them and got what you wanted the UDP, now you don’t want them again you getting whipped into a frenzy again to get rid of them. Do you all know what you want? If you all don’t stop, you, not the politicians, but YOU the voters and die hards are going to ruin Cayman. And when you cross that line there is no coming back.

So I implore you political party followers who say you love Cayman STOP NOW, before its too late, remember once you let the genie out of the bottle there is no going back. Do you want to have to run and leave what you have worked for behind? Do you want to have to hand over you child or teen daughter to a political thug to rape her, do you want your teenage son to die at the hands of them, because, if they don’t get you, they will get your sister, brother, son, mother, granny. Is this what you want?

You have been warned, if you don’t take heed, when its ruined you can’t say ‘I didn’t know’.

Maybe you can somehow calms the tempers, maybe do a segment of historical stories of countries world wide that party politics have destroyed economies and cost lives. Maybe interview some of the different nationalities that now live in Cayman that have experienced this. Somebody has to do something.

You should hear how the people of Turks and Caicos regret letting politics divide them. It’s a sad, sad case. The only people still happy about the British forceful take over are the foreigners and foreign interest who are now able to take over the people’s government. The TCIslanders are cut out of their own country. It’s a dictatorship with the British making ALL decisions. Be careful what you wish for these opposition politics guy could have an agenda and then egg on our faces.

Bodden

I’ve heard this out of your very mouth before, not just reading it here but as an ex-politician yourself and former government minister, I don’t expect anything else from you, brilliant man though you are.

You have also never denied your support for independence for the Cayman Islands, and on that score, at least you are honest in your opinions.,

In your world, the British are a convenient scapegoat when local politics has divided the country, turned families against each other, enforced political corruption and a host of other evils all so that one man and party can be king…after a country has been destroyed, as Jamaica, Haiti, Zimbabwe, TCI etc etc by their local warlords…

Blame it all on the Brits !

How convenient an escape route and excuse to offer your poor, naive, unthinking followers who will do your bidding for the crumbs offered them.

Luckily, some others of us are not so easily fooled or bought.

@firery – How many Boddens do you know??? LOL… it looks like you know only one!

Independence, Remain as we are, or Full British Rule, to me, it doesn’t matter what state we are in, so long British Rule is temporary and we are not satisfied on remaining in our present state.

At the end of the day, what is in the best interest of the people, their democratic rights, and liberties, is all that matter.

Freedom from identifying with thoughts / perceptions.

Freedom of Individuality.

Freedom to privately own and secure one’s property that was lawfully attained.

Freedom of Free Enterprise.

These are some of the freedoms we need to protect like the right of life and the pursuit of one’s happiness.

If we go Independant, we need a transparent government – a democracy for the people and by the people.

If we decide to remain as we are as a British Overseas Territory, we need the same above and to revamp our Constitution to ensure democracy in the Cayman Islands. This will inevitably lead us to Independence or Free Associate State.

If we decide to allow the British to have ultimate dictatorship rule over us. There is nothing in our powers we can do against this act, but make our complaints to the UN and others in the UK. We can only hope that the British Rule is temporary and they allow elections. But under such a state, how can their be democracy and liberty, if the rule suspends the Constitution like in TCI.

So it all depends… More than likely, Independence would be the better option. THAT IS ONLY INDEPENDENCE is accompanied with a GOOD GOVERNMENT SYSTEM in place.

No one is to blame. Not the British. Not our local politicians. No one – BUT ONLY THOSE WHO ARE MINDLESS AND IGNORANT. And yes…that could be anyone.

I am not ready to point the finger without evidence. But our Basic Human Rights must always be top priority in political decision making.

Regards.

From what we know the British have been working with the opposition party in TCI to take down TCI democratic government. Even going to the UN has not done any good except some UN decisions written and buried somewhere. This could be a set up to take over Cayman for foreign interest stakeholders. Lets be careful. Here is what we can find out about the opposition party working with British government in TCI.
http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Colonialism-in-Alive-and-Well-and-its-Happening-in/2939839

Bodden

LOL !

My profound apologies if I’ve got the wrong Bodden…

But you sure sound like the one I happen to know very well.

If its a case of mistaken identity, then please forgive me.

Funny how this comes right on the tail of Bush mentioning an investigation into the PPM regarding the Schools project. This personal war between the PPM and the UDP is going to tear the Island apart, these two are acting no better then rival gangs. It’s like two year olds fighting over a rattle….In the end it will be the Caymanian people that suffer.

Bodden

This dialogue between us is quality debate and has value for the readers of our comments, if they are looking for valuable commentary here on this forum.

To respond to some of your last comments; with the current situation evolving as it is, would you have any faith in any independence government of the Cayman Islands being transparent and capable of good governance, based on the behaviour of the politicians of both political parties right now ?

Even from 6,000 miles away, all I see is what I saw growing up in post-independence Jamaica but more on that later…

I totally agree with you on the negative implications of what the British Government is capable of, as history well documents, but why I’ve chosen to live in Britain now is that I have my full rights as a British citizen for which I don’t have to beg, plead or vote for; they are guaranteed me under British law which prosecutes and penalises the British Government, when the government itself, breaks those laws.

Massive difference from the situation in the Cayman Islands.

In Britain, citizens form their own opinions and associate and formulate their own independent groups and when they demonstrate, they are not demonstrating along any political idealogy; they are demonstrating on issues that they, themselves, have decided is in or not in their best interests.

If there is one thing that you do not have to convince the British public about is the corruption that their own politicians are capable of if left to their own devices and what they need to do to protect themselves from the consequences of that corruption.

That is the only thing that keeps the British Government honest, in Britain; and our demonstrations out here are not peaceful, organised marches, I can assure you.

Pay attention to the massive strike action that will take place in Britain by civil servants on June 30 and see what I’m talking about; it will be on TV the world over.

What I see happening now in Cayman is exactly what happened in Jamaica in the 1950s, before my time of course but having it taught to me in school in post-independent Jamaica as the history of the country.

Alexander Bustamante, the founder of the Jamaica Labour Party(JLP)fighting with his cousin, Norman Manley, founder of the People’s National Party(PNP)for the control of the minds of the Jamaican people and using the abuses of the colonial British Government as an excuse to pursue independence…

Which fight, Bustamante and the JLP eventually won…

And a post-independence Jamaica in total chaos and political turmoil a mere 15 years into independence.

Ask any intelligent, non-partisan Jamaica at home and abroad and they will tell you honestly and forthrightly; independence was the worse thing to have ever happened to Jamaica.

Ubder the current conditions, can you see the same thing happening to the Cayman islands ?

As of right now, I certainly can.

Bodden,

Yes, any citizens of the OTs can move to UK, get sponsored and become UK citizens with all the privileges you suggest. But being an OT citizen is different AND NOT THE SAME AS A UK CITIZEN. You must live in the UK to get the benefits you enumerate. Under UK direct rule, we would have none of that, we would NOT be UK citizens. We would live in a country without UK benefits and without self government in our own country. It will be a prisonership, dictatorship. We would be beholden to every decision made by the UK without anywhere to appeal if we don’t like the decisions. Even the UN and Caricom will be powerless to intervene in the UK actions.

The rights you’re enjoying in UK are apples and oranges to what would happen under direct rule.

There are worthy leaders out there. Never rely on the UK to fix our internal problems. Use a grass roots campaign to bring those good men into the light. I think the political games have cautioned many away. It’s dangerous business being a political leader in our current culture and attitudes. We have to change as a people if we want good leaders to put up with us.

Share-In

Very true statements and sound advice…

But what results can you see coming out of this situation now with both UDP and PPM leaders accusing each other of corruption and asking Governor Duncan Taylor to begin investigations of each other ?

What course of action do you think he would take if not the call in the central British Government to initiate these investigations and ultimately rule that neither of these political parties are capable of governing a stable and secure Cayman Islands ?

What message are these political leaders of the Cayman Islands now sending to the British Government ?

If they fear direct rule from the British Government as much as is being expressed, then they are calling it upon themselves by their irresponsible actions against each other and will have no one else to blame but themselves if it does, unfortunately, take place.

These two political parties were, themselves, the main block to Caymanians being afforded full rights as British citizens when they negotiated Cayman’s new constitution; they were the ones that told the British Government to hold off on implementing a full Bill of Rights for 3 years and it is now evident as to why they have done this.

It is not the British Government that has denied Caymanians their full rights in Cayman, it is their own political leaders who have and are doing this.

No Caymanian or citizen of any other Overseas Territory who is a holder of a full British/European passport needs any sponsorship to reside in Britain if they so choose.

All they need do is to register their presence in the country, with their paasport as proof of citizenship in any Socaial Security office in Britain upon their arrival and they are listed and treated as full British citizens with all rights, responsibilities and benefits afforded them; absolutely nothing else is required.

These same politicians had Governor Stuart Jack to blame for calling in the last corruption investigations but who will they have to blame this time…

If this political upheaval in the Cayman Islands continues along the path on which it is now heading ?

I thought you needed a sponsor at one point, but no longer, OK. Anyway, the point is, we are not in the UK, we are in Cayman as Overseas Territories Citizens and it is a much different citizenship altogether.

As to the political parties pointing fingers at each other causing political instability, I think there are three choices and none of the choices include free falling to UK direct rule.

1. Our parties need to wise up and work together. They need to make a peace treaty (and, I am not kidding). We need to have confidence in their ability to act like real leaders, a promise to protect us so that we don’t falling to UK dictatorship. The alternative to their behavior is that we will all lose our freedoms if the UK decides to unilaterally suspend our constitution and government. Suspend is really code for direct rule.

2. A grass roots group needs to legally intervene in the political fight and call for no confidence/new elections. Something has to be done. An international lawyer needs to look at our options. Because falling to direct rule should be avoided with our very lives. We will be reduced to permanent second class citizens in an existence without any autonomy or self determination it will give us no benefits. In TCI, the British changed the constitution to give themselves full power permanently. Even with future elections, the British will always be in charge. The elected leader will have only puppet authority.

3. If we do face being taken by direct rule, we MUST negotiate real UK citizenship for all of us. Not OT citizenship giving us nothing and taking everything. We must demand real UK citizenship if that happens to us. Otherwise, we will have no education benefits, we will have no welfare rights, we will live in poverty with no education for our children and no options with no one to turn to. The UK will say there’s no money in our local treasury and give us no benefits whilst taking our treasury so that we cannot spend on anything that benefits us Caymanians directly. We will fall victim to UK interests.

We must learn from what happened to TCI. We need to get educated now and make a plan. There is an obvious turn of events happening.

Something is about to happen. And we innocent bystanders will be screwed if we’re not prepared.

You’re totally correct.

The public should be listening to you or an organization that represents your views and understanding of the situation…

Instead of these goons they call political party leaders.

What it looks like from the outside looking in is that these two political parties and their followers will go to any lengths to seize or hold power in the Cayman Islands.

This looks like a virtiolic, aggressive political election in the making.

If Cayman is still free to hold elections by then.

These people need to wisen up quickly.

Share-in: You missed a big point by fiery.

You technically already a British citizen! You can pick up and go to the UK and get a British Passport because of the British Overseas Territories Act of 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories_Act_2002).

The irony here is what you’re afraid of in your point #3 is EXACTLY what happens to the British here in Cayman.

There is no reciprocity for British citizens in Cayman. Yet Caymanians can go to Britain and get FULL BENEFITS of an EU Passport. Which means full EMPLOYMENT ANYWHERE IN THE EUROPEAN UNION under the Bosman Ruling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosman_ruling)

I would welcome the UK taking over Cayman. There would finally be some sanity. It seems obvious that Cayman has lost the ability to effectively govern herself.

So it’s okay for me to be a second class citizen in MY homeland when the UK citizens here already have full UK rights even when they live here? Their children have education, their families have all benefits even when they live in Cayman, rights that I don’t have living in Cayman. If I stay in Cayman under UK rule, I will have nothing and the UK citizens will still have full rights in both countries. This is my home and what you’re saying is I will be forced to leave to UK to have any freedoms or rights. That’s screwed up logic. It is dangerous for anyone to believe your spin of the situation.

Here is another juicy little detail that Cayman’s politicians have kept hidden from Caymanian citizens (all legally British citizens already under the BOTA 2002)

This quote is from Wikipedia as well.

This has allowed residents of British Overseas Territories to apply for a passport describing them as a citizen, to join the British armed and police forces, and to exercise rights under the Human Rights Act.

The very last part of the quote is the part I’m referring to.

Technically, every Caymanian has the right to protection of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 WHILE LIVING IN CAYMAN.

This scaremongering of the Caymanian population by their own political leaders is respect of dictatorship of a United Kingdom takeover or suspension of their Constitution is purely for the sake of control.

Britain, or any of its OTs can never become a dictatorship under British law; the Human Rights Act is there to prevent that from happening.

But, in Cayman’s case, if this political strife escalates, it would only take a petition from a majority of the voters of Cayman, under the Human Rights Act for reason of their rights and safety being threatened, to trigger the British Government to intervene in Cayman’s affairs.

Its no wonder that both these political parties are misleading their followers about their British citizenship and doing their utmost to deprive them of the rights they already, legally have.

If they continue to threaten the safety and rights of Cayman’s citizens in this manner, they have only one objective in mind and that is indepedence…

Against the wishes of the majority of the population.

These people need to be very careful; they are treading on very dangerous ground with their strife-stirring at this time; Cayman’s citizens are still under the protection of the British Government.

Enough said.

Share-in:

UK citizens are subject to immigration policies in Cayman but Caymanians have full UK rights in Cayman in the UK.

Caymanians need to stop believing the hype by the expat haters that they’re 2nd class citizens. Caymanians can literally write their own ticket if they so choose.

JFK,

I am referring to the difference between UK citizenship and UK overseas territories citizenship. If the UK takes direct rule, we won’t have Caymanian laws or government. We won’t have anything Cayman anymore, JFK. We will be only Overseas Territories citizens which has NO meaning or benefits. Unless we move to the UK and leave our homeland, we will be nothing.

I don’t know what on earth you’re trying to say. But what I am talking about is if the UK takes direct rule and suspends our constitution and government. I don’t know why you’re so resistant to understand the facts.

Share-In:

What I’m trying to say is that as far as I can tell there is no UK Overseas Territory Citizenship at all; just Cayman Island Citizenship, of which INCLUDES UK Citizenship. You won’t be nothing. You will always be a British Citizen, with FULL BENEFITS and RIGHTS thereof.

And how do you know what it would look like if the UK takes direct rule? The UK doesn’t want to take action, they would be forced to based on the incompetence and corruption of the political system currently in place.

All of this makes me feel even more sorry for former Governor Stuart Jack, who had to sit and listen to Big Mac pontificate his defiance at the United Kingdom during his five hour Constitution Day speech.

JFK,

We would only have those benefits IF we move to the UK and give up standing in our homeland, Cayman. I know this because we have an example of what is happening in TCI. That is what I am trying to tell you. The people of TCI do NOT have UK citizenship benefits, they do not have their own government anymore so they don’t have TCI citizenship, they have nothing. One article describes them as The Lost People. Because they have only OT citizenship which gives them only travel benefits, they have no citizenship rights or benefits. Please be wise.

Share In

I’m not attempting to support JFK’s responses to you; I’m sharing the cold, hard facts with you as they stand.

You’re obviously misguided in your understanding of the current situation re your citizenship.

You’re free to verify anything I state here from independent, official sources if you wish.

The facts are:

You are already a complete British citizen; this right and status was afforded to you under the British Overseas Territories Act 2002; you do not or did not have to request it, you have already been granted it.

This supersedes your status as an Overseas Territories citizen but does not abrogate that status; you are still a British Overseas Territories Citizen of the Cayman Islands.

There is no such official status as a Cayman Islands citizen but this is purely a legal position for international purposes; meaning, should you have a problem abroad in which your government had to intervene on your behalf, it would be the British Government’s embassies or High Commissions from which your assistance would come.

In all other respects you are a person of Caymanian Status, which gives you the full rights afforded all Caymanians, either born with or granted this prililege.

Your politicians have clouded and misrepresented these facts for political mileage ever since British citizenship was afforded to all BOT citizens back in 1998 through a White Paper.

If direct rule was to ever be applied to the Cayman Islands, your citizenship status would in no way change; legally and officially you are still a British citizen with Caymanian status; all your rights under the Caymanian immigration laws would in no way change.

The unfortunate thing that would happen is that your rights to vote in an election would be suspended as a result of your Constitution being suspended for whatever time British rule was imposed.

Yes, unfortunately, your democratic rights as a Caymanian in that respect, would be suspended but that would not be your fault.

Direct British rule would definitely not be a good thing for the Cayman Islands; make no mistake about that.

When the current status is not satisfactory to the majority of Caymanians, they are free to express this to the British Government through a national referendum and set your timetable and schedule for indpendence from Britain.

These are the facts; there is no need to be misled or manipulated by your politicians.

Please find the truth. You have to reside in the UK to activate and exercise these UK citizen benefits. If we stay in Cayman (our home) we will have no UK benefits. We need to protect the people who want to stay in Cayman by demanding full UK benefits should the UK take our government/parliament. There’s an article by Ben Roberts in TCIpost that touches on this phenomenon. The UK FCO made a decision to keep OT citizens from infiltrating the UK benefits due to worry of Hong Kong political turmoil several years ago. The UK was afraid that the Hong Kong people would infiltrate the UK system so they limited the OTs. We can make this clear so that there is no confusion because you don’t want to be left wondering where you went wrong like the people of TCI that are destitute. The only ones that have any UK benefits are the ones who have left their homeland and moved to the UK to activate full UK citizenship status.

Party system is not the cause of problems in politics, corrupted people are.
The UK has a party system with a long history and I don’t hear of Green shirt and Yellow shirt
warfare. Corruption that would see one group arm itself against another would not be tolerated by the UK and would be a welcome reason for intervention in Cayman by at least this Caymanian. If we are at risk wither by foreign or domestic the UK has cause and a responsibility to act.. Thankfully their flag still fly next to ours..