Legislators on Wednesday raised concerns that a new Adoption of Children Law may allow gay people to adopt children in the Cayman Islands.
During debate on the adoption bill, some members of the Legislative Assembly were concerned the law provides for the Grand Court to give permission under “special circumstances” for homosexuals to adopt a child of the same sex.
West Bay legislator McKeeva Bush addressed the prospect of a homosexual person adopting a child as a single parent who later begins a relationship and cohabits with or marries a same-sex partner, saying he would never support same-sex marriages, even though the United Kingdom now did. However, he said this one potential scenario should not hold up the passage of the bill, which he supported.
“We ought to have means to make changes in the best interests of the child and to keep within the norm of our laws and our constitution … We do know that the United Kingdom has changed some laws in regard to same-sex marriages, so we can’t think that there have not been thought processes [in Cayman] in that regard,” Mr. Bush said.
Mr. Bush said he would never agree to any laws in the Cayman Islands being changed to allow same-sex marriages.
Minister of Community Affairs, Gender and Housing Dwayne Seymour responded by saying that the Cayman Islands Human Rights Commission had stated that Cayman was not in violation of Europe Union human rights by not recognising same-sex marriages or allowing gay couples to adopt.
The amended law states that a homosexual person cannot adopt a child of the same sex, unless the Grand Court is satisfied there are “special circumstances which justify making such an [adoption] order”.
Mr. Seymour described a scenario in which a single woman adopts a child in Cayman and later weds another woman in Las Vegas before the couple returns to Cayman as a married couple. “This is one of the concerns,” he said.
He pointed out that the Cayman Islands Constitution specifies that marriage is a union between two people of the opposite sex and gives heterosexual couples the right to found a family together. “The constitution … protects the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman,” he said.
Mr. Seymour referred to responses from the Cayman Islands’ Human Rights Commission on the United Nations’ position on same-sex marriage, saying the European Convention on Human Rights protects the right of a family life “which, generally speaking, is similar to the right to found a family under Section 14(i) of our constitution”.
He added: “However, I am advised that the European Court of Human Rights has not yet considered whether same-sex relationships constitute family life nor has it considered whether same sex couples should have a right to adopt children. Public events in Europe at present seem to support this observation.
“For this reason, there is a margin of appreciation applied by member countries of the EU as to what constitutes marriage. The Cayman Islands have taken advantage of this margin of appreciation of the defining marriage in heterosexual terms. Accordingly, the current draft Adoption Bill in restricting the right to adopt to married couples is not in violation of any clearly established principal enunciated by the European human rights system.”
The amended adoption law will make it more difficult for parents to adopt from overseas, requiring permission from the Adoption Board and visits to the homes of prospective parents by social welfare officers.
The Grand Court will also decide if a single woman is allowed to adopt a male child or if a single male is allowed to adopt a female child. An earlier iteration of the bill included a clause by which the Grand Court could determine if a person “known or reasonably suspected to have sexual attraction to children” could adopt, but Mr. Seymour said that part of the bill would be replaced with a provision prohibiting paedophiles from adopting.
East End independent legislator Arden McLean described the existing Adoption Law as “antiquated” legislation that makes the adoption process a long, drawn out one and highlighted a case in which a teen had waited a decade to be adopted and was almost ready to graduate from high school before the adoption was finalised.
Mr. Seymour said that the implementation of the new adoption law would streamline the process, as would the recruitment of three new social workers to the Department of Children and Family Services to handle casework and the re-assignment of case workers with track records in producing high-quality reports in a timely manner for adoptions.
Mr. McLean also urged young people to act responsibly. The amended law allows for parents under the age of 18 to give up their children for adoption with the consent of their own parents.
“I trust that no one, no young ladies, teenagers, in this country use that as a licence to have kids,” Mr. McLean said. “I hope not. I hope if they get caught up in that, that they recognise that they have a responsibility and they have live up to that and it’s not a licence to be reckless, carefree, and then someone will adopt the child. These are serious responsibilities and we must all try to ensure our young ones, boys and girls, understand their responsibilities.
He said he was bothered by the number of young men in the Cayman Islands who do not support their children.
Mr. Seymour took over the Ministry of Community Affairs, Gender and Housing in December – when the minority government was installed following a vote of no confidence in the United Democratic Party government – from his predecessor Mike Adam, who tabled the bill in the Legislative Assembly late last year.
Mr. Adam said the bill was consistent the Children’s Law 2003 and helped provide further protection for the rights of children and he thanked the current minister and civil servants for finally bringing long-awaited amendments to the bill.
The second reading of the bill, which precedes the committee stage and third and final reading of the bill, passed unanimously.
The Legislative Assembly was holding its first sitting of its last meeting before being dissolved on 26 March. Other bills that are being considered during this sitting are: Cayman National Cultural Foundation bill, an amendment to the Marine Conservation Law to provide better protection for stingrays, the Health Practice (Amendment bill), the Mental Health Commission bill, the Mental Health Bill, the Monetary Authority (Amendment) Bill, the Human Tissue Transplant Bill, the Development and Planning (Amendment) Bill and the Notaries Public Bill.
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I have never found Gays to be hostile people, although their lifestyle is different from mine. However I always wondered the consequences of them raising a child at their home. Personally it may not be a good idea because they will adopt what they are seeing, which may cause them to be teased at school and they may then want to retaliate either on other children, on themselves or on their gay parents. Then on the other hand I have watched The Bird Cage and enjoyed it.
I think the only really important issue to be considered is the safety of the children. The adults human rights, which are apparently as yet undefined, must always be secondary to this.
Sadly, I have seen first hand how this can go wrong in the UK. A married women got divorced with custody of her son. She then entered into a same-sex relationship with another woman and they started to raise the son as if he was a daughter. It was resolved by determined intervention from social services backed up by the courts and only after the boy had gone through months of trauma.
In fairness this was a fairly isolated incident but if you do go down this road please make sure all the checks and balances are in place.
What is in the best interest of the child is to have a safe and loving home REGARDLESS of the sexual orientation of the parents. So many people who claim to be Christians on this island are the first to condemn homosexuality but turn a blind eye when it comes to extra marital affairs, beating loved ones, or other far worse acts. If you truly are Christian then let God be the one to pass judgement and you just worry about yourself.
Religion has no place in law making. It has no place in schols either. Let society decide whats right for society and leave the church out of it.
Religion has every place in law making and definitely a place in Schools. If a person chooses not to believe in God that is their right. However the Cayman Islands should not feel forced or intimidated into changing the basis or ideals our country was founded upon. I hope the day never comes when prayer is outlawed in our schools and I am proud that the Bible is used for swearing in of Jury members and those giving testimony in court. These have always been GOD FEARING ISLANDS and it should remain that way.
I guess I am still in the twilight zone! Homeless, parentless children just want a place to live that is stable and loving! If statistics are researched world-wide, it has been proven that children don’t adapt or adopt their parents’ sexual orietation! This is from a legislature/judicial system that allows a 32 year old man to go free literally after raping (or defiling)a 13 year old girl because he was drunk???? PLEASE! Let us see if we can regulate the wrongs we are committing on a daily basis before we add to the existing! I don’t think that many gay couples are lining up in Cayman to adopt children that this even needs to be discussed at length. What we need are laws to adequately punish pedophiles! Not suspended sentences. Suspended from a rope perhaps, but not otherwise! First we need legislation that gay couples can come out of the Closets they live in and start to live like normal families! Take religion out of law-making and be fair to the citizens of our country, whatever their chosen life style may be. Stop condemning people because they are not like us! Be kind and be humane where we can. None of us is getting out of this boat without the help of each other, gay or not gay!
@Speak the truth
My friend, it is your line of thinking that has the islands in somewhat of a dark position. You will catch up long after you and I are dead. Religion is responsible for more killing than all the world wars and disputes in between. Trying to debate the existence of God with you is like asking the blind to read.
As for the concerns of people with children adopting the sexual orientation of their caregivers/parents, get with the times. No such bull crap exists to support that theory whatever. If there is, please post the site for me to read the findings.
And finally, continute to beleive that its ok to persecute gays because the bible says so. Then procedd to stone them to death in the name of god is love and love thy neighbour as thyself.
Wow! As a practicing Christian, I still find it shocking that people who claim to be Christian can be so aggressively homophobic and hateful of other human beings. Doesn’t the bible tell us to remove the plank of wood from our own eyes before we remove the splinter from others?
Tampons are for women only! Adam is for Eve – not for Steve!
I can’t see how anyone can endorse a homosexual lifestyle as in accordance with God’s plan. I just don’t see, and its not because I have HATE. It is my opinion and belief.
If Gays want respect, they need to respect the beliefs and opinions of other people – not try to push their tenets on society!
My take!
Everyone deserves a chance to be happy, regardless of sexual orientation.
I find it amazing and disturbing that this is the focus our government takes. The majority of child abuse/sexual abuse is not done by openly gay men and women. These acts are usually done but persons who are straight and have control/power issues. This truly has nothing to do with the sexual act, but more to do with asserting dominance over another person. It is so sad that a child can not be raised by two people who truly care and love them because of who they love. If a person is open with who they are, they are free to love and nurture those in their lives. It is when secrets are kept that dark actions occur and people are harmed. It will not make the child gay to be raised by a gay couple, as every gay person I know was raised by straight parents and it didn’t make them straight. I hope one day Cayman will shed this ignorance and allow children to be brought up in more loving homes.
This debate being had in 2013 shows how ignorant so many people are.
As has been pointed out, gay people are generally not the ones doing a bad job of parenting children, nor are they responsible for most of the assaults committed against other members of a family.
You know, I trust gay people so much, I’d rather have an openly gay leader who displays integrity, humility and sound decision making skills, than a ‘straight’ leader who is corrupt and dumb.
Pattieman: you’re so right. The new Premier of Ontario is gay, and during the election campaign no-one seemed to care about that. She got a lot of support from women, however, because she is well-educated in women’s issues.
Some of you people talk like love is reserved and defined in such a way that it is limited. I will have you know that there is the timeless issue of pure love – a love that has no conditions and strings attached…
Hence, have you not thought that it is possible that a man can love a man, and a woman can love a woman like people of the opposite sex???
If God is not a God of pure love, then why has he given us the freedom of choice to befriend and fall in love with anyone of maturity.
As for me, yes I am not attracted to the same sex and I am a man of faith… but I can not see myself disrespecting and condemning two people who are in love with each other and have a passion for each other.
Peace
To the person obviously spamming the thumbs down button on several of these comments – you do know that it just makes you look stupid? Just wanted to make that clear.
Bodden, how can you say you are a man of faith and you are endorsing homosexuality? Sounds hypocritical to me. And Pattieman may it occur to you that the reason why you are getting all the thumbs down, is because many people Cayman are oppose to the lifestyle. I don’t know of any Caymanian that would say that homosexuality is moral and aligned to natural order.
SirTurtle — are you saying that God made a mistake when he created gay people? How many mistakes does God need to make before you consider the possibility that it is you that is wrong, and not God?
I can’t see how you can pretend to know God’s plan? Who are you to say what God’s plan is, because there are one or two references to it in a book that’s 2000 years old?
Gays aren’t trying to push their tenets on society. They aren’t requiring you to be gay. It is you that is trying to push your beliefs on them.
I think it is shameful that you would accuse God of making so many mistakes. You must not be much of a Christian to have so much disrespect for God.
I can speak from experience. I am the proud father of a 31 year old son and a 32 year old daughter. I’ve been married once and still am to the woman of my dreams. Our son is gay and we have known this since he was in 2nd grade. He did not learn the homosexual lifestyle in our home. We did not watch television programs with alternative lifestyles. We attended church regularly. Our children attended parochial schools. A child that does not know homosexuality does not make a choice at 8 years old to come home and anounce to his mother and I that Bobby (name changed) is the cutest boy in his class and that when they grow up he going to marry Bobby. Our son had never met a gay person nor known a gay person. He instinctively was attracted to the same gender. As he grew and realized these feelings he attempted to supress them. As he supressed them he became more and more factious in his life, leading to times of great depression and suicidal thoughts. Not until he prepared to leave for university did he publically announce to my wife and I that he was gay. My wife, knowing the community and how it would react, was very distraught. I, as any good father, informed my son that I loved him, and would always stand to protect him from the world as I would do for any of my family.
When in university, he met a very considerate and caring young man. A young man that has family values that align with ours. A young man that has religious views that compliment ours. My son has now been with the young man as a committed partner for over 12 years. The have worked to buy a house and to create a home for themselves. They have been active in the community and are the first to lend a helping hand to those in need. As a father I could not have been prouder of them. Until last year.
When my son and his partner informed my wife and I that they were considering adoption, we had concerns. These concerns were instinctual that you can’t seriously raise a child with out a mother. My son is a resident in Missouri which has a constitutional amendment barring samesex couples from marrying. In the past Missouri judges would not allow homosexuals to adopt for any reason. Our legislature even considered a law to remove children from the homes of know homosexuals even if those children were their own. Fortunately Missouri does not have a law that forbids homosexuals from adopting. Because that law does not exist in our state I was given a true gift from God. That gift’s name is Colton. A wonderful little boy that has wrapped this grandpa around his tiny fingers.
The point I make is that adoption isn’t just a child and an adult, it’s bigger. It’s grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins, neices and nephews, and hoepfully it’s brothers and sisters. Little Colton wasn’t just adopted by his dads. HE was adopted intp an entire family. One that will be there for him, and protect him from the world when he needs it. One that will nurture him into being a productive member of society. My hope is that he becomes the man that his fathers have shown the world they are.
For the starter I am not arguing for specific position on gay adopting babies, I just want everybody to understand the problem in a larger context.
There is a set of rules, norms of behavior which comes from medieval times. Some of them include prohibition of incest, prohibition of pedophilia, prohibition of homosexual relationship, family relationship (with some deviations from one man-one woman in Islam). I am not putting equality sign here, just read on. This was inherent in most of world’s subpopulations. It doesn’t matter the form sometimes it is in form of religion, sometimes it can be some tribal taboos, doesn’t matter for our discussion here. The question is why? Is it some random fact or predetermined way for development of population? I would argue that yes, this is predetermined way. Why? Because when humanity was just starting and existed in forms of tribes scattered across the world, there were tribes with different morale / tradition set-ups. Some were very gay loving, some were making group tribal sex, some were involving children in relations from early age all sorts and kind. What happened next is that some models of behavior proved to be more sustainable then the other. The world we see now is the result of this natural selection populations we have now in the world grew and outcompeted other populations with different set of values. Is it random thing that populations which survived stuck to the things listed about? Leave this for you to decide. Maybe it’s a random chance, maybe populations practicing incest for example were just not competitive? You think about it.
What we have now? Now we have wonderful, intoxicating idea of Freedom. For everybody in everything. Why? As simple as that everybody likes to do what they wants. If you give freedom in one thing, you are immediately asked to consider next thing. So over some time we are removing constraints which our population accumulated over time in order to survive competition against other populations. Is it good? I don’t know. It is the kind of collision we have when we try to apply humane principles to the nature oh, that tiger ate antelope, it’s so bad of him. But this is how nature worked all the time. So as a result of fighting for individual good, humanity loses its grounds as whole getting weaker and less competitive. You can see it by the fact that western civilization (as most advanced in this Freedom fight) is dying away with not enough babies born to replace people dying. People not engaging in families, not bringing up children. Gay question is just a small-small landmark on this way, so I am not blaming anybody specifically for what’s happening just want everybody to understand larger picture.
As for further development of society, my prognosis is that in 20-30 years we will shift focus from fighting for gay rights to fighting for zoophile rights and in another 20-30 years for pedophile rights. I am not putting equality sign here!! Gays are mostly good people, just like everybody else. I am just saying that specifically idea of freedom in sex will not stop growing further.
Any population/religion which would stuck to the rules giving competitive edge and forgetting about Freedom in everything will rule the world in 50-100 years. If none of current religions/doctrines would pick it up now, it will eventually emerge at some point because there always will be people not happy with things happening.
Or maybe we will have some scientific breakthrough which will resolve all these issues and bring us into a Brand New World.
I don’t know if anybody can overcome the process at this point. Just choose your own way for yourself and stick to it.
Bryan, I am not against men who have more feminine qualities than other men – nor am I against a boy that has grew up sexually different than the other boys. These things are acts of nature. If God made him with female hormones then so be it… I accept that and accept him.
What I don’t accept, is people justfying well developed people making choices to become what they were not meant to be! Gay by Choice… is nothing more than people lusting and discontent with who they are. It is these people I feel the holy oracles severely condemns and warns others to abstain from their lifestyle.
Just for the record, God does not create gay people. He created man in his own image. What we do with that is up to us.
The very fact that I will have to appear before Him is sobering enough. I cannot speak for any of you, but I would simply say this…Pray.
I have a few gay friends but I have made it very clear that as long as I am not subjected to viewing any of their behavior and its not displayed towards me, I don’t care what they do with their life. I do not support gays or gay marriages nor do I support the adoption of children by especially gay couples. This world has gone completely crazy in my opinion. I cannot for the life of me understand what it is that causes such attraction to same sex??? I actually find it disgusting.
Just wanna say that when it comes to the gay issue, i dont condone it and i dont think there born this way, it is either a lifestyle the y choose to lead, or somthing mental or physical is wrong with them, one of the major sins that got sodom and gomorroh destroyed was homosexuality, the men there wanted to have sex with the angels GOD sent to destroy them, its wrong and anyone who approve of it is wrong, I know its like drugs you will never get rid of it thats why I dont allow it to bother me, if thats they want to live there lives so be it, on the day of judgement every man will have to give account for himself, one thing i would like to say though is this, its so funny that if two guys are caught in a sexual act, weather it be intercourse or just simply kissing, peoplle, especially men are outraged, but lets take two beautiful ladies and undress them and put them together in a bed performing the same thing the men were doing and guesss wat, once again especially to men it becomes an instant turn on, yet its still the same homosexual act, and as for adopting children, it should never be, first of all lets forget about the child being abused by the same sex partners, lets worry about the abuse the poor kid will go through from his peers, i think that should be the real concern.
@Bryan G – Thank you for sharing such a touching story. It actually brought tears to my eyes! I hope it will open peoples minds to see beyond the hate that has been instilled in their hearts, or the judgement that they feel towards those that have a different lifestyle.
There are SO many gay Caymanians on this island I think the person who commented below saying they didn’t know of any should get a reality check. What is likely is that they know several, but their attitude and judgment of such persons has prevented the closest homesexuals to go further back into the closet!
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t enjoy seeing two woman or two men making out, or even a man and a woman for that matter! But I do not think we have any right to judge others based on who they love. We don’t know the whole story.
I find when a lot of these homophobics find out that one of their family members or close friends is gay, after a while they come around and realize that they are people too. I wish people weren’t so cruel to those that are different.
Just to clarify:
mentally ill is NOT equal bad
mentally ill does NOT mean must be treated at any cost.
When we talk about mental illnesses in general, few patients really want to be treated, and treatment is forced onto patient only if he/she is dangerous for society.
But somehow when you say that homosexuality is mental illness, everybody understands it as saying that gay people are bad and that they must be treated. Why so? They are generally not dangerous for society and they generally don’t want to be treated, even if reliable treatment existed. So let them live as they want. Even if it is still mental illness.
Forcing idea about homosexuality being normal healthy behavior just distorts pure science and stymies the scientific progress.
I am embarrassed to say I am from the same country as all of you backwards, close-minded people. Homosexuality is not a mental illness, and it is not a ‘choice’. You are BORN that way. It’s not unnatural, there is nothing wrong with it. Oh, the Bible says it’s wrong? Well guess what – the Bible also says that if a man sees a woman naked when she’s on her period that the both of them should be exiled – Leviticus 20:18. Why aren’t we enforcing that? Because it’s ridiculous, that’s why. Why shouldn’t LGTB’s be allowed to adopt children of the same sex? Do you think they’re going to molest them? What a farce. Guess what? Straight people molest children, but I don’t hear anyone up in arms about them having kids. Please go crawl under a hole and rid our society of your ignorant bigotry.
I am anti homosexuality! But I am not anti-homosexuals. I treat everyone with respect and dignity. Anyways, Cayman Islanders want to be a UK Colony yet they just want the name and not the laws! Come on! You are a colony of the UK — not a separate entity! This is the benefit of Independence! We are a sovereign nation! Cayman is not sovereign
What a comfort it is to know that Sir Turtle and God get to sit in judgement of the rest of us! But I’m guessing, Sir Turtle, that you get the final say.
I moved from South Africa to Cayman because I like the mix of cultures and being part of a tolerate society.
I have never seen so many hateful comments on a article and from people who consider the self Christians. You should feel ashame, this is not the way your God wish for you to treat your fellow human beings.
Dogs get more love and respect in Cayman then Gay people!!!
@melisandre – well said
I personally do not condone homosexuality I have always believed God or nature whichever you prefer was designed for a male and female to cohabitate; if we were to have men only or women only for sexual reproduction then I suppose the human race would come to an end!I have gay friends and have in most cases found them to be well educated, enjoyable conversationalists and generally speaking make pleasant aquantancies, what I object to vehemantly however are those who feel that they must inflict their lifestyle on others. I enjoy being with my straight friends too but I don’t personally make a public specticle of myself and believe that the gays that do so are really just seeking cheap pulicity!They also are their worst enemies as they are certainly not the majority in the world.
Suddenly it has become fashionable to promote gay rights, gay marriage, gay adoption.
Look at gay marriage in a biological sense only. Does a penis really belong inside a rectum and if so what does it accomplish?
Every child deserves a real mother and a real father whenever possible. Circumstances change, through divorice, abandonment, death. The child should have every opportunity to have a real set of parents whenever and where ever possible. Heather should not be forced to have two mommies, and little tyler should not wonder anything about daddy’s new room mate.
Gay men generally are in a state of arrested development, whether they be actors making bon mots and witty sayings a la Oscar Wilde, or Catholic priests who seduce and molest young men in the name of religion.
If readers could only take a cruise on a line such as RSVP gay cruises, they might have second thoughts about being so defense when any body criticizes so called gay issues and rights.
Morne, in many cases dogs get more love and respect then children in the Cayman Islands.
It’s not the gay or religious aspects of this that people should be worried about but the fact that social services are already totally unable (or simply cannot be bothered in many cases) to protect the younger members of the community.
Bluntly what bothers me about this is that the kind of social worker structure that you get anywhere else to properly administer this does not exist within CIG.
Two or Three years ago I would have said batty boy fi dead, and I would not want a gay couple to adopt a child.
But now a little older and wiser I could careless about a persons sexual preference. i still dont understand how a man would rather sleep with another man than a woman but its what they want to do so let them be.
It would be great if the law passed but lets be realistic here the law is probably not gonna pass because of all the old stubborn people who think they know best. Wait about 8years after they lose power and die off then the law will be passed no problem.
The funniest thing is these homophobic politicians are acting like they are the ones who gonna be living with people who are gay. The person who should have the biggest say is the child being adopted.
Melisandre,
Why so much hate to people born with mental illnesses? Why do you hate them so much that you want to prove that gay people don’t belong to them?
Why do you think that people are never BORN with illnesses? That it is always some choice? There are lots of inborn illness which are nobody’s choice. Most of them genetic. Some of them mental. Just for your education.
I also don’t like close minded people like you, who tries to turn any medical fact into a reason for hatred. This is why we can’t openly talk about so many things – just because people like you would say that this is embarrassing.
In response to:
You are BORN that way. It’s not unnatural, there is nothing wrong with it. Oh, the Bible says it’s wrong?
If some behavior replicated on large scale (whole population) leads to death of population, then it is unnatural and ill. And yes, there is something wrong with it. Simple test – what happens if all people on earth turn out to be gay – and you don’t need Bible to understand that. Nature has some allowance for errors, so if 8-9% of population is gay, it can still survive. But these 8-9% are still ill and unnatural part. This is not reason for hatred or discrimination – let people live as they want. I don’t support Bible on that. But why should we bend laws of logic to call something unnatural natural? I don’t understand that.
Why should we promote this style of living? Not all gay are born gay. Some born in between and for them promotion of these values can result in conversion to this lifestyle. So you can have 4-5% of population being gay by birth or 15-20% of population if you promote how cool it is to be gay. Especially among teenagers. Would you?
@stan By that logic, celibacy would be unnatural, which seems to be meaningless word in and of itself: homosexuality is found in species other than human. The only way it could be called unnatural is if you decide to redefine it to be whatever you personally find icky. Not to mention that there are many unnatural things such as shoes, glasses and, perhaps most poignantly, computers, which are useful in our lives.
Furthermore, there are many useful, or at worst neutral, aspects, circumstances and situations under which if the majority population adapted them it would be detrimental. What if all the world were lawyers, or doctors, or architects, or bakers? Each one of those things are useful, but society would collapse if everyone were only one of those things.
Oh, also forgot: the idea that people can convert to being gay, while in and of itself a show of disdain for homosexuality (i.e. even if it were a choice, why would you care?) is also not shown to be true. Some people are bisexual: they show attraction to both men and women. Perhaps you are confusing that for what you believe to be conversion?
Some people are bisexual – yes. Why do you want to promote them being gay?
Question of possibility to become gay is one of those questions where science was FORCED to accept answer which is deemed acceptable by gay community. Nowadays there is no way any scientist can publish any research on this topic showing that it is possible without ruining his/her career. So we will not know the truth until people like you can fight your prejudice and biases.
I knew that somebody will bring up this found in other species argument. Yes, human beings are not only beings where nature makes mistakes. So what?
Your argument about bakers and lawyers is meaningless – bakers can become lawyers, lawyers can become bakers. Maybe it would work a little bit worse, but it will work.
And indorri, again, you first make assumption that unnatural = bad, unnatural must be eradicated and then you are all in fighting to prove that being gay is not unnatural.
YOU made assumption that unnatural is bad. It is not in my posts. SO you should be fighting all other unnatural things, like computers and shoes and glasses.
I do accept unnatural things, being gay or glasses, so it is not my call.
@stan I promote them doing which they wish without others insisting they are mentally ill or wrong for doing it. Do not place words in my mouth. As for science being forced to accept something by a small minority who had little political power, you will have to make a much stronger case than merely asserting it.
The reason I brought up the animal arguments is because you seem to wish to equivocate unnatural to be different things depending on who’s criticising you. You seem to think nature makes mistakes. This is an implicit admission that you consider nature to be goal-oriented and that it, to put it bluntly, messes up. This contradicts your later assertion in which you (dishonestly) attempted to accuse me of finding so-called unnatural things as bad. The point was to demonstrate that so-called unnatural things can, in fact, be good, or neutral, or bad, just as natural things can be good, neutral or bad for humans.
@stan You also attacked a red herring of my counterargument. You stated that to demonstrate something was unnatural was to examine what it would do to the human species if all people adapted it. My counterargument was to illustrate that that is not a useful metric. I did not argue about people doing something other than what they did before. I argued by stating if ALL people were to adapt the same profession. Society could not work if everyone were a lawyer. However, that does not illustrate that being a lawyer is unnatural.
Published on Thursday 28 February 2013 11:37 in a UK News Paper
THE adoptionservice helping couples in St Helens give disadvantaged children a permanent, loving home will fly the rainbow flag this weekend.
WWiSH, which covers Wigan, St Helens and Warrington, will take its message to the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community when it exhibits at the National Gay Wedding Show at Liverpool’s Echo Arena next month.
The organisation has already made considerable strides in helping LGBT couples adopt children looking for permanent homes, and actively welcomes enquiries from people from all walks of life.
WwiSH’s aspiration to help people from a diverse range of communities fulfil their dreams of becoming parents has been boosted by the recent developments in gay marriage rights, which saw the House of Commons give its backing to proposals allowing same-sex church weddings.
The adoption team also hope to break down some of the barriers and challenge a few myths about adoption.
Many couples wrongly believing they are not eligible to adopt children or not considering adoption if they are unable to start a family of their own.
Ruth Fitzgerald, WWiSH adoption manager, said: Choosing to adopt is an incredibly rewarding, life changing decision.
And it is one that we know many attendees at the show will have considered to some extent.
We have approved many LGBT adopters and aspire to making the dreams of many more come true, providing more forever families for the children in our care.
We look forward to meeting couples and singles who may be considering adopting, and urge them to come and speak to our friendly and experienced team, who can offer them advice and information on all aspects of adoption.
The Liverpool exhibitions will feature around 200 displays from across the UK, providing services and products for couples preparing to tie the knot, regardless of their sexuality and promote equality and acceptance within the wedding industry.
The National Gay Wedding Show takes place on Sunday, March 3.
To find out more about adoption, contact WWiSH on 01942 487272 or visit: http://www.wwish.org.uk
Wow.
As I read all of these comments (as an American) I see how truly anti-gay the Cayman Islands appear to be. I’ve heard about this (that the Cayman Islands are very anti-gay). I guess it is true…. at least with many people writing comments here today. Not all, but many.
I certainly don’t see many of these anti-gay comments as being very Christian. If anything I just see a lot of judgment a lot of people that want to control and belittle the lives of other citizens and human beings.
Hopefully this anti-gay stigma that the Cayman Islands has will change. Maybe someday Christians also won’t be seen as simply the anti-gay people of society – or as so judgmental of people different than them.
Maybe someday Christians will be seen as loving or compassionate or the gracious people of our society. Maybe. For now it seems like being anti-gay is the most obvious and primary characteristic and trait. Sadly, much of this anti-gay attitude is actually giving the appearance of being hateful of gays. Well, I’m not sure that is what some Christians are wanting to portray. Not at all. But, that is what many people are seeing. Judgment and hate.
Seems to be a great deal of the blind arguing with the blind, let alone the dumb, on this thread. And losing the common thread of humanity in the process.
For all you who believe that state and religion should not be separated… do you know that in the verse following the prohibition of a man lying with another man, there is also an explicit prohibition on wearing clothing made of mixed fibers? Yup, wool and linen is a sin my friends. Well, according to Deuteronomy 22:11 and Leviticus 19:19 anyway, which states Thou shalt not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. And guess what, eating shrimp, also a big no-no: These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat: whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you. I could go on but I think the point is clear.
I actually bothered to study the religious background and intent of certain laws, instead of sprouting half truths and biased unfounded opinions. I also studied Applied Ethics at university where a number of studies were examined and concluded that sexual orientation is pre-determined genetically ie in the nature nurture argument, it is nature that wins. Google it if you don’t believe me. A man doesn’t wake up in the morning choosing to be attracted to a woman, he just is. And that is the same regardless of sexual orientation.
I grew up under the Apartheid regime in South Africa where it was unequivocally accepted that anyone of color was inferior, was not to be afforded the same rights as their white counterparts, could not vote, attend the same schools or even sit on the same park bench. This was abolished not even 20 years ago. Now SA is blessed with a constitution which is recognized as being one of the most liberal in the world. Sadly many of the comments I’ve read below take me back to those Apartheid days at home. It is no different to hate someone because of their race than to hate them because of their gender or sexual orientation. Yes, you may not understand it, but I don’t understand how some people enjoy eating mushrooms (I hate them) or love watching football (I’m not a fan). Do not use the Bible as an excuse to perpetuate antiquated discrimination, and if you wish to behave as a Christain, practice your religion in its entirety. Hold the shrimp, please.
Should I speculate according to comments,and thumbs up and down, that 75% of Cayman population is Gay.?
My final argument on illness vs natural thing:
Definition of Life, you can start with Wikipedia, includes features important for recognizing living organism – number 7 in this list is ability to reproduce. Gay people have physical ability, but don’t have mental ability – they don’t want or mentally can’t do it.
For some people to accept something it is very important to get approval that something is natural and healthy. Please grow up and learn to accept things which might be not natural and not healthy. Don’t deceive yourself just to get around something you don’t like. Learn to accept it as it is.
About my other posts – I am not anti-gay, I oppose any kind of discrimination against gay people. And my posts are not in any way anti-gay.
Concerning gay adoption, I entrust this decision to scientist – if they say that children brought up by gay families do not acquire any mental problems, then let it be. If later on there will be evidence to the contrary – then stop it.